View Full Version : Trip Leaders: What iIis involved in running a trip?
This is a question I have recently been asked. Thought I'd start a thread as I am hardly the repositary of information on it. Trip leaders, please step in with thoughts.
My full and collected answer: "buggered if I know". That's it and all of it. The rest is mere cogitation. Just ended up in this place as I felt the club needed support during the last Jambo, and we've just kept going since.
I might put some guesses together though.
Firstly, it is actually a role representing the club. There's not too many situations where this is particularly important, but if there was ever an insurance claim, you are the voice of the club. It's highly unlikely, so unlikely I have not actually heard of an insurance claim at SJC. Could be wrong. But the trip leader would be the voice.
Because of this, Kerry and I like to follow some basics that few others do. We always take a roll call with signatures. We have all of them somewhere. Probably nonsense, but makes me feel more comfortable.
Next, there can be an expectation that the Trip Leader is a qualified medic, a mechanic, a communications specialist, a survivalist, a driving guru, a trainer, a recovery expert, and has contacts with anyone useful within 50k of where you are travelling. Never all of these at once, but depending on circumstances every single one of those expectations can come out. It's clearly unreasonable drivel, but as a trip leader it's worth thinking about how you might react to each. "Oh oh, my car got a scratch, you heinous trip leader!". I'm much less bothered by those thoughts these days.
And actually what the club wants, is trips. So if you've put your name up you are already ahead! In the mean time, if you feel there is something you'd like support in, just ask.
Another expectation is (can be) that you drove the trip very recently to check it all still works. This one is a 50-50. Its irritating if a trip leader isn't prepared for something obvious, but there are trips I will only drive when leading. Eg, I'm not doing a solo reccie of Mt Airlie just to check it out. Though to be fair we have done exactly that, excessive call to duty!
So much for the formality and unreasonable expectations!
Next the bits that Kerry and I really do think through and stress about.
OK, vehicle damage, how do you prep for that?
Some of it is trail experience, do what you can. The rest is knowing where the easiest trails are to get out.
And be prepared to cut the vehicle. This means getting the guy home, but you may not be able to keep the convoy in place till midnight. We had to leave Steve's TJ behind at Mt Airlie. Did NOT like doing it. Next time though, we'd probably make the call an hour earlier.
You must be responsible for the recovery, OR nominate someone who is. Again, this can be a little flexible at SJC, I prefer to make it clear. Not obnoxious, just clear who the lead is. A CJ7 snapped its engine mounts at Jambo at the bottom (predictable) of the Spanish Steps. At the limit of my ability for sure, but handed over to his mates who had class. Double joint winch in four parts, a thing of beauty.
But our knowledge of the trails was needed on the safest way out. Newnes isn't hard but knowing which way to go is important.
We carry spares for us, water (radiator blows?), oil, etc. also heavy ratchet straps, duct tape, and cable ties. They're available if needed. If a repair needs more, its plan B. How do we get out.
A TJ with us at Cut Rock snapped its rear drive shaft. Hell. Tow under snatch back to C grade, then they drove out on front wheel drive. Again important to know where the main trails are.
Bottom line, you do not need to be a mechanic. Hunty pulled together one early trip we were on with "OK, we need a plan". Comfort, cool, calm. We will never forget it. If your caught in a recovery thats getting stressy, just try those words.
Trip grading.
A vexed thing. It felt to me, that at SJC there was this kind of male macho contest, that if you declared any trip harder than C+, well you were not a real jeeper. Maybe that was just my sensitivities, but it seemed to me to be pretty useless in giving new club members an idea of what they would be facing.
The 4WD Association has adopted the Vic grading system, which follows snow ski gradings. In the mean time we stick to D, C, B, A grade. "+" is added to confuse.
Ultimately Kerry and I have adopted our own thoughts, which probably won't help others. But i think newcomers will find some consistency.
D grade: graded or gravel tracks. The main routes that you need if there's trouble.
C grade: stock Jeep. Happy for it to get challenging but I'm hoping a stock will run it, with a newbie. Possibly with spotting. I make a bit of noise on these, you know - gratuitous advice - when we are in low range, which side of the bog we took etc, spot close to obstacles etc. I'd rather be didactic than under-inform.
C+ grade: When low range is needed more than not. Start of "technical" driving. I'd like to know that guys on the trip know where their Diffs are. Expect to spot heaps on these trips. Walking is a good thing. Less instruction from me, but more walking.
B grade: Relief. There is no-one on the trip who doesn't think they are up to it. Presumed knowledge. We spot when asked, though hold up the group to walk when, well when you need to walk it. Otherwise, let them know to speak up, anytime, we spot whenever needed. But probably suggest we spot much much less on a B. We're with the experts now! And they WILL be ready to ask for a spot when sensible. (Mostly)
B+: totally subjective, but when I'm getting a bit aprehensive. I'm hoping to have attracted real quality on the trip list because I'll probably need help. If it's a track I don't want to do solo, I'll call it at least B+. It's a call for help!
A: hmm, these guys are as excited with re-building their jeep as they are with breaking it. We are working on it, but we're not there yet.
examples:
Black Fellows Hand: C grade
Spanish Steps: B Grade
Pipeline: B grade, used to be C+, we dont think it is anymore
Ranger Bob: C+ Our archytype C+
Sunny corner to Turon River: there is a D/C and there is a C+. Its all about how much low range there is.
Fluffy Bunny: B+
Airlie: B grade. But it has a B+ Step. Mt Airlie is our archytype B grade.
Daniels Point Rd: B grade, pity its closed
Cut Rock: B+. Not that hard but we've NEVER managed it without damage, and had some other vehicles with serious damage.
Monkey Gum: C+. Serious B in the wet.
Dusties, Tree Root B
Lost city: C, Glow Worm tunnel, D.
CPT80: C+, but a B bog exit
Baal Bone: D really but with a C+ entry and C+ exit. Therefore C+
Oh, the new ones on our list that we have not done and won't do on our own!
Wave Rock: A
Ertzberg Hill: B+
My advice to budding trip leaders, work out your own theory, and be consistent. Work generally within the SJC thinking. Start with Kerry and my definitions by all means, just expect that some SJC old timers will go "C+? That's not a C+! In my day it didn't rate a Z-!"
Can't please ALL the punters all the time.
Great points Dru
We carry paper maps as well as digital maps. We study the paper maps before going into a new area to give us an idea of alternate tracks etc.
Start with a small trip first and do some recce's (drop the secretary an email to say you are doing one so you are covered by club insurance) so you are confident in the area you will lead your first trip. Your confidence will put the others on your trip at ease regardless of what happens
You can't always do a recce especially trips further from Sydney like the high country - this is when research and studying the maps pays off.
The boiling billy books are awesome for track notes points of interest on some fairly common trips - work your way through them.
It's ok to turn around if the track is hard than you expected or that water crossing is deeper than you thought it would be, or some other obstacle
Understand the capabilities and of the cars and drivers on your trip. You may want to organise the convoy in a specific order - is it raining/muddy/slippery put smaller cars and those with road tyres first then those with a/t - those with bigger lifts and muddies to the back of the convoy. Will the terrain be difficult may be you want one big car followed by a smaller car so the bigger car can help the smaller car up over obstacles if needed. Place newer drivers with a more experienced one infront of them.
When something does not go to plan take a minute to assess the situation and then work out what you can realistically do and go about doing it calmly.
If there are children consider some one take them for a walk in the opposite direction
If it is an extended recovery (we once spent 4 hours winching Brian's ZJ) think about food and drink breaks (the kids and I raided everyones car fridge and put together a drink and meal for everyone and delivered it to their area when it was safe
Don't take it personally if no one goes on your trip! The timing might just be wrong. We have put trips up and we have been the only taker, or one other car...we still go and have had awesome times!
Work with another member to run a joint trip and share the trip leading
Bonus - No dust with the roof off when trip leader!
Thanks Heidi!
Protocols. Boring but useful.
Get everyone signed up at the air down. Then bring everyone together. Something that Heidi and Brian showed us, was around a ring of people, introduce yourself. Give some tips. How long in the club? What jeep? What is your experience and what are you looking for from SJC and this trip?
This felt a bit corny at first but we have learned its worth doing even with an experienced group who know each other. At least it starts the banter!
Advise at the air down. There is this "professional" thing about not providing advice so you cant get in trouble. Just say what you are doing and why. But useless though when I'm airing down 35" agressive muds from 40 psi to 18psi, and the bloke looking for clarity has a brand new cherokee with mag wheels and low profile tyres. You'll need to work this out yourself. I say, "hell I'm meant to say what I do, but if I were you I'd do this." Avoiding risk can only go so far before it destroys a trip. I dont always know the right answer, but I try to speak plain and give the advice.
TEC (Tail End Charlie). The trip leaders crutch. It's AWEFUL leading a trip with bugger all feedback. Pick someone you are comfortable with, preferably an experienced clubbie. Note that on our Watagans C Grade Trip 2, we actually contacted Rich to say, "hey bloke, would you mind doing the second one?" He didnt. AND stayed for TEC on Trip 1. What a trooper!
discuss a protocol in the comms. Several times yesterday Rich was "are you there, Dru?" as I didnt acknowledge a call. Spot on Richard! Also, let everyone know it is recreation, not a bloody military radio silence! Chatter is to be encouraged. Yearned for actually. With a group of new comers it will be pretty quiet. Yuck. With a bunch of clubbies, expect to be picked on, and have thick skin. Its all part of the service and the trip leader is an appropriate centre for jokes!
Convoy procedure. Read the SJC procedure. Take it to heart. Brief the convoy after introduction. There is little worse than a long convoy splitting up. Honest. "Do I turn right or left at that burnt tree?" Over the radio. Which of the 350,462 burnt trees in this forest? Not fun. Dont lose the car behind you.
On C+ I like to ask the convoy to put some effort into keeping up. Dont forget that when you get through a low range section, you can go fast now but the convoy is still crawling! On B if you are getting away, you're doing something wrong. On C, be calm. Patient. Who ever is the slowest is the speed of the convoy - not you. In fact ENCOURAGE drivers to be in their comfort zone on a C. Dont let them rush. You'll be amazed at how a C grade trip you thought was too short just swallows the day. If it does, you are doing it right.
Other protocols. OK, you put the effort it, why should you have to do the trip report? Or sort photos? See if you can get volunteers. Gives them a standing at the next club meeting, and let the pics be dropped into whatever format suits.
What skillset do you need to lead a trip?
nothing much really. It was a scary step for Kerry and me. But any step is like that. Just doing it starts dropping the stress. These things we like to have sorted for a trip to reduce our own anxiety:
1. We like to be comfortable in the trip ourselves.
2. We like to have familiarity in the area. Options to get out, where the tough routes are, nearest fuel etc. that stuff mostly comes from doing the trails a bit.
3. I like to know an idea of how long it will take. We take a solo journey time and double it. (Yes double).
4. I like to know my own jeep is well prepared.
After that, I like confidence in my TEC.
Doesn't hurt to have a little knowledge of recovery, but that depends on the grade. C grade does not require a PHD in winching and snatch straps.
How do you know when you've done well?
That's tricky. Especially if there were unexpected challenges (it can happen). Or you get lost. (I got lost twice navigating on our last trip in the Watagans). Sometimes you need "self ego strength". Dont over do it though.
Here's a thumbs up that I take from our last trip. "After an awesome day yesterday put us down for this next trip." Woohoo, a happy customer! Gotta be doing something right.
OK, so thats the point, did the convoy enjoy it? Are we potentially gaining new members, or keeping recent members happy?
If yes, I'm sleeping soundly. Job's a good'un.
OK. It's time. You're thinking of leading a trip. Where do you start?
Firstly let's acknowledge the people who got you to this point. For Kerry and Me, enormous thanks to (no order)
Mani
Jose
Hunty
Andy
Brian
Roop
Steve Foster
(God, hope I didnt miss anyone.)
AND from the AWDC club, Assistant Trainer Dave Knight. (No, SJC is not the only place where knowledge abounds.)
OK, so all those guys would help me get going to lead. Guarantee it. All I had to do is ask. Then stand back as they are so relieved that someone new might lead trips! You will have your own list. Chat to them. Maybe they have a trip in mind that you may be able to take over. I'd gladly shift to TEC to help a new trip leader.
Dont be worried about "stealing" a trip. Hell, Mani wouldnt be speaking to me on friendly terms as I sort of took ownership of Mt Airlie. Erm, and Pipeline. Ditto Andy and Spanish Steps, or Brian with Sunny Corner to Turon. Hell guys, truth is we'd LOVE new trip leaders to pick up on our trips! (God knows I'm ready for someone else to pick up the wonderful Mt Airlie.)
Think about maybe a reccie based on one of the 4wd trip books. Ask for someone to voluteer to come with you.
lastly, Kerry and I have taken to scrutinising the internet looking for trips. We are avidly on the hunt for B grade. And info is there if you hunt.
Get a good navigation tool. We use HEMA, I doubt its the best, but it definitely works for us.
Rocket55
23-10-16, 09:01 PM
Some excellent info there Dru, well done for putting it down on paper.
My wife finishes off her Nursing degree in 3 weeks, then I'll get some time back. First step is to learn the capability of my newly acquired TJ on some trips, then start getting out and about some more.
Often ended up running TEC in my previous 4wd expeditions.
XJeepers
25-10-16, 10:24 AM
Just my opinion, but a good trip leader demonstrates the typical leadership behaviours. That is they are able step back from situations and look at the bigger picture. That might be a recovery situation, mechanical failure or helping a less experienced driver through the line. It doesn't always mean direct involvement either or knowing it all, it might mean asking another experienced driver in the group to help out, but a good leader is able to recognise the talents and contributions of others in order to achieve the best possible outcome.
A good leader learns from the experiences and what works well and what doesn't. It is always good to reflect back and consider what you could have done better, wether it be a particular recovery technique that worked or didn't, or the decision made or not made with regards to a severe mechanical failure late in the day. The decision made at the time is one thing, but the reflection on the decisions made is way more important in my view.
A good trip leader knows their stuff and has the courage to make sometimes difficult calls.
A great trip leader however leverages the knowledge of the whole team, has not only the courage to make sometimes difficult calls, but leverages of the knowledge of the whole team, and reflects on the decisions they made so they can learn from them for next time.
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Steve F
25-10-16, 10:59 AM
.....Other protocols. OK, you put the effort it, why should you have to do the trip report? Or sort photos? See if you can get volunteers. Gives them a standing at the next club meeting, and let the pics be dropped into whatever format suits.
Last to arrive at the meeting point does the trip report ;) Encourages people to get there on time :)
Cheers
Steve
Convoy arrangements.
Check the vehicles out - especially with new comers to the club. Limited lift and mag wheels/lower profile tyres need consideration. Look to put a capable vehicle, preferably with an experienced driver, in front of the vehicle that may need help.
Longer convoys getting stretched out can lead to dodgy comms between Trip Leader and TEC (Tail End Charlie). Worth picking out someone to put in the middle and let them know you may ask them to relay messages between the ends on the convoy.
Less experience can be placed behind the trip leader to see the lines you take. And then be on good behaviour! Take the easy lines. If everyone is experienced have fun with challenging lines, but otherwise expect people to follow what you are doing.
Pre trip checks:
Weather:
Feel free to use Willy Weather, Sea Breeze (these use BOM datasets). Wind finder is another (uses NASA data sets). BOM (Bureau of Meterology) actually want these commercial apps to pick up on niche advice while they stick to priorities like extreme weather warnings. I still like the BOM system MetEye more than all of them. http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/meteye/
Things to look for:
Rain, a little dampens the dust, a lot will destroy your day. Consider creeks etc that might be flooded. Consider the damage to trails while you are out.
Extreme weather - we always check the radar before leaving, storms don't necessarily show on the predictions, but will show on the radar.
Wind, if it was windy BEFORE you go any trees down may prevent access. Annoying. If it is windy WHILE you are out, it may make getting out interesting. A lot more than merely annoying.
FIRE: Check fire warnings - make sure you know about no fire restrictions if you are camping. If it's fire season where are the fires and what impact will they have? Also check for planned burns in the area.
http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/fires-near-me
National Parks - check track closures. http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/visit-a-park type in the Park and click on the map
State Forests: The site is less user friendly and provides less info, but then closures are much less frequent. http://www.forestrycorporation.com.au/visit/closures
We will check these things when thinking about the trip, and again when we post it. Week out. Day before. On the morning before we leave we check weather and radar. Yes it's a bit OTT, but it's second nature after years of remote kayaking. We find it just a part of the fun in the trip planning.
XJeepers
25-10-16, 04:37 PM
Don't forget TEC is just as important (and usually share similar skills) as the trip leader. TEC can see a lot of things the lead cannot for example.
Mid gunner is the term used in large American convoys for not only Comms relay, but to also assist the lead and TEC from the middle of a convoy.
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And a really important one that helps establish us as valid stake holders of an area - complete a trip report with Forests NSW and NPWS - you need to go to www.4wdnow.com logon as a registered user and select the Parks and Forests tab
Why is this important - it gives ongoing statistics that an area is being used and actually makes it harder to close it down! It increases the need for consultancy for any changes to access etc
And a really important one that helps establish us as valid stake holders of an area - complete a trip report with Forests NSW and NPWS - you need to go to www.4wdnow.com (http://www.4wdnow.com) logon as a registered user and select the Parks and Forests tab
Why is this important - it gives ongoing statistics that an area is being used and actually makes it harder to close it down! It increases the need for consultancy for any changes to access etc
Bit clunky that report system.Thanks for the nudge, I had not been doing the Association trip reports
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