Wobbles

[richhenning]

Hi guys
just wondering your thoughts on what happened on the convoy trip to Baal Bone on Sunday.
We were on the bells line of road in convoy, DD setting quite a mean pace. At about 90km/h around a sweeping bend the road surface got a bit rough. The back end started shuddering really badly, and started a 'wave' of shuddering energy that moved through to the front and shuddered the steering wheel in my hands. After the shuddering wave passed, the car was a bit unstable and eventually settled down. This happened twice more on bells, scaring the bejesus out of me. The car was fine for the rest of the awesome day, we weren't driving at those speeds on the uneven Tarmac anymore. We went home via the great western freeway to avoid bells and the trip home was fine.

my 2010 JK unlimited sport is completely stock, only has 40k on the clock and was purchased second hand from SVM Roseville.

I am thinking of taking it to pedders for an inspection

rich

[Wallyd]

If its a jk, its the death wobble. Lots of info on ajor about that. Main contributor is the pan hard rod, and or ball joints, bushes, lots of possibilities.

[DanD]

:O I thought I was alone... otherwise I would have backed off... I did see you @ Lithgow but thought that you kept on the GWH (being that you were stopped at the lights ;) ) Apologies for scaring the bejesus out of you!! I almost lost it on that road on the way home also, some a*s*h*le decided to speed up when I was overtaking them - hit a bad patch on the road and was all over my lane and some of theirs... I'm most likely going to Bilstein shocks much sooner rather than later!!


Hi guys
just wondering your thoughts on what happened on the convoy trip to Baal Bone on Sunday.
We were on the bells line of road in convoy, DD setting quite a mean pace. At about 90km/h around a sweeping bend the road surface got a bit rough. The back end started shuddering really badly, and started a 'wave' of shuddering energy that moved through to the front and shuddered the steering wheel in my hands. After the shuddering wave passed, the car was a bit unstable and eventually settled down. This happened twice more on bells, scaring the bejesus out of me. The car was fine for the rest of the awesome day, we weren't driving at those speeds on the uneven Tarmac anymore. We went home via the great western freeway to avoid bells and the trip home was fine.

my 2010 JK unlimited sport is completely stock, only has 40k on the clock and was purchased second hand from SVM Roseville.

I am thinking of taking it to pedders for an inspection

rich

[dobbo56]

This goes for All people on a trip. If ever your in a convoy and you feel uncomfortable just get on the radio and let the trip leader know, we will only go as fast as the slowest car, likewise on the trail if you feel unsure of ANYTHING jump on the radio and we will talk you through it or around it. Don't feel embarrassed by getting on the radio its not a competition or a race, we are all there to have a good time, Safely. If in doubt read Convoy Etiquette, its on the website. Hope this helps you guys, And Rich, death wobbles are very common on JK's around the 40K mark, im expecting mine any time now. The Joys of Solid Axels.. Cheers Doggy Dave.

[dobbo56]

Trip Suggestions and Reports, the first Folder. SJC convoy Procedures. Everyone should read this at least once. .DD..

[DanD]

Helps to know if one is travelling in a convoy though ;)


This goes for All people on a trip. If ever your in a convoy and you feel uncomfortable just get on the radio and let the trip leader know, we will only go as fast as the slowest car, likewise on the trail if you feel unsure of ANYTHING jump on the radio and we will talk you through it or around it. Don't feel embarrassed by getting on the radio its not a competition or a race, we are all there to have a good time, Safely. If in doubt read Convoy Etiquette, its on the website. Hope this helps you guys, And Rich, death wobbles are very common on JK's around the 40K mark, im expecting mine any time now. The Joys of Solid Axels.. Cheers Doggy Dave.

[richhenning]

Understood and noted DD thanks. I have indeed read the convoy procedures, a few times.
Because the situation settled down each time I was ok to keep on, but if things were any worse I would have shouted out.

Aw man, death wobbles. I read about that when I bought the car, never thought I would have to deal with it with a stock well looked after JK.

Any suggestions where to start, bearing in mind I will be looking to professionals to repair.
rich

[Paul-JK]

As others have mentioned there are a few reasons for wobbles/shudders in a JK, and at 40,000km and 3 years old there's a good chance that at least the ball joints are completely shot, if not a few other things. Sounds like a trip to Wooders is in order!

One other thing to consider is the standard shocks (if it's still stock). The standard coils aren't anything to write home about but they're OK (until they sag so much you're riding on the bump stops!) but I found the shocks to be way too stiff and this caused some frightening moments hitting rough surfaces mid corner. Get some new shocks and all of a sudden the suspension actually soaks up the bumps and doesn't shake the steering wheel out of your hand.

[DanD]

By DD - do you mean Doggy Dave or Dan D ?? :o

As Paul mentioned above re the stock shocks, they are my next item to be replaced - get your front end checked out though as at least it will be peace of mind for you


Understood and noted DD thanks. I have indeed read the convoy procedures, a few times.
Because the situation settled down each time I was ok to keep on, but if things were any worse I would have shouted out.

Aw man, death wobbles. I read about that when I bought the car, never thought I would have to deal with it with a stock well looked after JK.

Any suggestions where to start, bearing in mind I will be looking to professionals to repair.
rich

[richhenning]

Hey Dan
i was referring to Doggy Dave, apologies for the confusion.

Thanks for the info Paul, the shocks are still standard. I think I will take it to a suspension specialist to be checked out, maybe get the parts from wooders.

rich

[DanD]

No apologies necessary! Just glad that you weren't trying to keep up with me on Bells ! Had a Cruiser with a trailer on the back that was dead set maniacal on tailgating in the 80 zones after I over took him just outside of Lithgow that I got him in the rear view and he never stopped trying to tailgate me... Did one or two not so smart things in order to put a few cars between me and it...


Hey Dan
i was referring to Doggy Dave, apologies for the confusion.

Thanks for the info Paul, the shocks are still standard. I think I will take it to a suspension specialist to be checked out, maybe get the parts from wooders.

rich

[Wallyd]

Suspension specialists wont find it, JDC wont find it. Talk to Phil at dbor nsw, he'll be who id talk to. I fixed mine via a panhard rod and ball joints....

[richhenning]

Thanks for the advice Wally, I'll do that.

[richhenning]

Dan, I swear you a hooligan!

[Paul-JK]

Thanks for the info Paul, the shocks are still standard. I think I will take it to a suspension specialist to be checked out, maybe get the parts from wooders.

rich

The shocks won't cause the wobbles. The cause will be some of the other things mentioned. The shocks just won't help any as they make the ride to jittery anyway.

As Wally said, don't bother with any of the usual suspension places. You want someone who specifically knows Jeeps and hasn't just spent the last 30 years working on Patrols and Cruisers. And absolutely don't bother with the dealers as they'll tell you it's "within tolerance" which is BS.....and even if they do offer to replace parts like the ball joints (which is unlikely given the age of your JK) then they'll only replace them with more weak OE parts that will fail again. Jeeps specialists are your best bet, or if not then a Land Rover specialist....not because LR's are anything like Jeeps, but just because at least they appreciate that everything isn't either a Nissan or a Toyota and might actually have a proper look.

[SteveC]

Doggy Dave you are right but not all of them end up with death wobbles. I think many are attributed to lack of regular maintenance and not finding issues before they become major ones. It means getting under your vehicle, knowing your Jeep and checking all components on a regular basis. and yes, using quality parts will help but you must use them correctly and especially focusing on torque setting for all bolts.
Talking about bolts, an often over looked part(s) and I highly suggest that people upgrade their suspension bolts with http://www.synergymfg.com/Synergy-Suspension-Jeep-JK-F911-Hardware-Kit-p-28601.html

Using a specialist like DBOR (who have gained a good reputation in the Jeep community and have been quite good at supplying parts, though I did have one or two issues/debates with Bill about faulty parts) who are now in Sydney Central Coast. So may be worth talking to. else happy to help you out.
But expect to open up your wallet.
BTW many patrols & others have similar problems as they are rigid axles too.
Steve

[Jeep11]

I got the wobbles too, I just started doing sit ups every morning and that helped. :emmersed:

[TRBN8R]

Hi Rich,

New ball joints from wooders, rebalance tyres, retorque all suspension bolts and see if the wobbles r still there...... If they resurface try getting a new trackbar...... its a hit and miss thing.... but dont goto pedders... they will put ur car on hoist and will not let i go without spending a 1000 bucks on stuff u dont need and the wobbles will still be there..... same for Jeep dealers.... They will have a 16 yr old apprentice go thru it and then tell u problem couldnt be replicated..... if they replace stuff they will replace it with crap anyway as other said..... Look out for toolbox days to change ball joints... that will save you some labour money and give u some hands on experience.....

Cheers
Mani

[Wallyd]

Steve, the death wobble is something that is only unavoidable if you dont take your jk off the black stuff. Upkeep and maintenance will not stop it from creeping up. Ball joints dont have any servicable parts, so the only time you know theyre flogged is when you actually check them or if you start noticing movement in the front end. Also, the track bar is a none serviceable part also, you can only check to see if the bushes are gone, and change them, and wait for them to go again, or you just upgrade it to a better quality one. I agree that u should keep an eye on torque on all nuts and bolts, but, by just line marking them all, will suffice. Also, tie rod is another major contributor to front end movement. I have changed all my front end to aftermarket bits, and only now, am i very happy with how its going. Upper and lower arms, track bar, damper and tie rod, around $1600 all up, and also front drive shaft $800 odd dollars. I installed everything but the drive shaft myself and in doing so, have taught myself of they why and how things work and operate. I love my jk!!!

[1stJeep]

Don't feel bad about getting DW on a three year old stock JK. You've done well. We recently spoke to a customer with a 2013 Unlimited with 6000k's on it and reproducible DW. We advised to exhaust the dealer options first as it's obviously in warranty. They suggested a change of stabiliser shock, a measure that does little if anything but to mask the root cause. She's getting that done when the part comes in (two weeks). Most common cause is ball joints and worn bushes anywhere from control arms to track bars. Tie rod ends are another common one.

[rupicon]

it will be the panard rod / track bar bushes one end or both any movement and your going to get dw and if its going to dw its going to do it on bells just ask my tj

[Steve F]

I just fixed the wobbles in my XJ today, only started last week and came on real sudden, turned out I had a partially seized front uni on the left hand side axle. It wasn't moving properly and unless I was going in a straight line it caused a pulse and made the steering wobble. Was not what I was expecting to find when I got under there to sort it before Coffs and it wasn't until I pulled the hub and axle (to check the axle wasn't bent) that I found it. So basically check everything is tight, nothing is worn and don't rule out things like worn hubs or unis as they may look good but still cause DW.

Cheers
Steve

[richhenning]

Thanks everyone for the great info and advice. Still thinking about what's next, might take up SteveC's offer to have a look with me, or it's a trip to the new jeep hospital in wyong!
The JK is very well behaved in its light weekly suburban duties at the moment, but I am very aware that there are issues underneath. Will need to have some work done first before I can jump on any trips. Bummed that I am missing Mani's tasty sounding trip this coming Saturday.
rich

[SteveC]

I also forgot to mention that after owning my WJ for 8 years, I suddenly got the sever wobbles while on holidays up the coast. Scared the hell out of wife, me and the poor dog, thought we'd lost a wheel! We ended up coming back home at 2am so I could travel the freeway at under 80kph. Not nice with big trucks powering past you.
Anyway it ended up that one of my front tyres, yes, tyres only was out of round and it had caused it to DW badly. Had the tyre replaced under warranty from coopers and never got DW back after about 2 year on new tyres. So guys it's not always the suspension.... I did however replace the ball joints a while later as I wanted to cover all basis even though they seemed OK.
Richard, happy to hellp you out