I'm on the verge

[SteveC]

As you may be aware I'm on the lookout for a replacement Jeep after owning my WG for 10ish years. While it's been faithful , it's time for a change.
So I'm about to finalise a purchase of a new JK & trade the WG in.

I'm aiming for a 2012, 4 door Auto Petrol. I was advised to stay away from diesels. hmmm

The only thing I have from my current WG that I can use is my warn XD9000 low mount, with in-cab controls. 265/70/17 KM2 & Dynamic steel 17x8 wheels that have a better offset, which the size eludes me at the moment, while I sip my Chardy. I know the tyres are moderate size but it would be a waste as they have only about 500 k on them. Beside budget is stretched.........

Can this winch be fitted easily on a replacement winch bar? Can the wheels be still used while keeping under the current flares which I don't want to change really.

My intenetion in the short and medium term is to get winch bar (suggestions please, I like the ones that blend/rake in with the stock flares), sliders and moderate lift (unknown height at the moment but probably 2-3")

I'm hoping to have it (even in stock) for Jambo.

BIG Q - What else should I be prepared for.

Thanks

Steve

[Paul-JK]

Hi Steve,

Great choice. I think the Pentastar auto will be a great combo. I love my CRD but I have to say that if I were to replace it tomorrow then I don't know whether I'd stump up the extra for CRD again or just stick with the V6. The CRD is a great engine with stacks of torque and are proving to be very reliable but they seem to be asking a lot more for them now (compared to the V6) than they were when I got mine.

The 265/70/17 tyres are within a bee's private parts of the stock tyre size so running them will be no issue at all, even when stock. As for whether they'll be still under the guards with the wheels you've got, that's a bit hard to tell without knowing the wheel specs. Another option if you want to go bigger is sell you KM2's, sell your stock tyres, and buy a new set of 285/70/17's. That's what I'm running. They fit under the stock guards OK. They can fit under a stock JK (maybe with larger bump stops) and will have no problems under a 2" lift. With the stock wheels they rub on the front sway bar but if you have different wheels then you will hopefully not even have that problem.

The main issues you'll have with a stock 4dr is the ramp over angle. My mate's stock Triton used to get over things with far less fuss then my JKU when it was stock. My auto bash plate took a hell of a hammering until I got the lift in, not to mention bending the side steps up into the body work. A 2-3" lift sorts that out though, as well as getting rid of the god awful stock springs/shocks. There are masses of choices for lifts, even more so for the V6 as that's what all the US lifts are designed for. For me though you can't go past the Suspension Stuff flexy springs with shocks of your choice. They ride well, empty or loaded up, and flex great off road. I run the Rancho adjustables with them so I can soften them right off for off road work (combined with sway bar disconnects they flex up really well) and dial the shocks up a bit for a firmer ride on road or when carrying a load. You may also want to look at other things such as front track bar, rear track bar bracket and adjustable control arms (I got lowers but some prefer uppers) so that you can get the front end geometry back to where it should be.

As far bars, all I'll say is watch this space. I've got a mate who is currently prototyping a bar similar to the ARB bar, so one that has full wings that fits with the shape of the car well and fits up to the stock flares, will take the OE fog lights, is winch compatible, will be ADR approved (not just compliant but actually approved) and is aiming to sell them at between 60%-70% of any of the other ADR approved competition (ARB, TJM or DBOR). Can't wait to see one in the flesh (and get one on the front of my JK!).

All you have to now is find one and pick the colour you want!

[SteveC]

Thanks Paul
What height lift have you got? I was hoping 2" maybe 3". Do I need anything else (in other words Things to consider to protect my investment) with a 2-3" lift? I was hoping to get springs and shocks only .
I'd like to get this clear well before Jambo if things pan out

Thanks Guys

[Paul-JK]

Hi Steve,

Mines sitting at about 2.5" above stock.

Some people say that at 2" or under you can get away with just springs & shocks and I've seen loads of people post up to say that's exactly what they had and have run on them for 10's of thousands of km's and had no issues at all. All I know is the the design of the front end of the JK seems to be prone to steering shimmies and later full blown death wobbles and as my JK is my daily driver I didn't want to risk having it off the road unnecessarily. I therefore decided to do it "right" first time rather than risk doing it in bits, waiting until I had problems, and then having to do the rest as well as fix whatever else has been flogged out by the wobbles or problems. I was originally looking for about a 2" lift but in the end settled on a 2.5", which looks great with the 285/70/17 tyres.

My reasoning for all of the parts I added were:

Springs & shocks - Obvious
Front adjustable track bar - Needed to re-centre the axle. I knew I was going to be running 285 tyres which will more than likely scrub slightly anyway as I have stock rims but if the axle isn't centred then it will more than likely scrub really badly on one side
Rear track bar bracket - Uses the stock track bar but relocates it to re-centre the axle. Also raises the roll centre of the vehicle so that it handles corners better. Better to get one that fits to the axle end rather than the chassis end.
Lower Control Arms - Pushes the axle forward to compensate for it moving backwards slightly due to the lift. Also allows the caster to be corrected otherwise the steering can be very flighty and low caster can induce steering shimmy. You can also do the same thing with the AEV drop brackets and then keep the original arms. These move the chassis mount point for the lower control arms down and forward. A lot of people rate these because as well as correcting the caster and correcting the axle position, they also return the angle of the control arms back to stock which is supposed to help the handling over bumps greatly. The down side to them is they reduce ground clearance (and they're illegal but technically so are adjustable control arms).
Longer sway bar links for the rear - Get the sway bar back to original angles
Sway Bar disconnects for the front - Get the sway bar back to original angles and allows to disconnect off road which makes a huge difference
Depending on your springs and shocks you'll also need to extend your bump stops a little.


As I said, some people don't go to all this trouble and have no issues at all. I decided to change all of this as mine is my daily driver so I wanted it right. I also got flexy coils and slightly longer shocks to improve the flex off road as well so I figured if the axles are moving further due to the extra flex then I should really sort the alignment out and make sure it's right. Mine now drives and handles better in every way on every surface than it did stock and between the flexy coils, the extra height and some better rubber it's transformed it off road as well. Yes it cost more for the lift than I really wanted but if I was to do it again tomorrow I'd do it all the same again as it all works well.

You welcome to have a look over mine if you want, or have a drive of it if you like. I'm just up the road. I work for myself so I can meet up at anytime really.

[SteveC]

That's fantastic Paul
So well explained
You are right - from my last experience transforming the WG, it's to be done right the first time - even if I have to wait.

I wonder what bar I should look for - The ARB looks nice but at $1450 supplied, it's more expensive that the WG one I bought !!

Height first I think. I like the bilstein shocks, they were excellent on the WG. What are these 2.5" springs you talk about?

The Adjustable C/As I had on the rear of WG I sourced from http://www.ironman4x4fab.com. They are well made and the seller seemed good

I know wooders can do some of it for sure though but I appreciate finding out where did you source your stuff?

I might take up your offer to at least see yours on the dry tar rather than on the mud haha

Steve

[Paul-JK]

Hi Steve,

I'm hoping to have some more info on the bar I mentioned in the next week or two. I'll let you know as soon as I know more as I think it'll be better than the ARB bar, not to mention a load cheaper.

I looked at the Bilstien shocks, and the guys who sell the coils I bought recommend them as well but it depends on what sort of ride you're looking for. They are quite a firm shock and I felt they were too firm, especially when the car was empty. I had a drive of Wilf's JK (I think he gets on here as well as AJOR) and he uses Bilsteins and even with all of the extra weight of his touring set up his still corners like it's on rails, but it gives a firmer ride than I was wanting. I wanted a soft ride when empty but still have the ability to carry a good load of camping (the little lady doesn't pack light!).

I ended up buying bit's and pieces from all over the place. I used:

Suspension Stuff flexy coils. These are locally made out of Brisbane. A lot of 2" lift coils are actually about the same length as stock coils but just use stronger wire so they don't compress as much. The SS coils are the opposite, they are longer and are progressively wound. The progressive bit means that they ride soft when lightly loaded but stiffen up as they compress further so they can still carry a load. The fact that are longer means that you can flex far more with them without them becoming unseated. They're not cheap but the guys at SS are fantastic to deal with. Tell them what JK you have, what accessories you have fitted and what height you're looking for and they will send you the right coils. If you fit them and the height isn't right, they'll send you some more until it is right. They also make the right hand coils 15mm taller to account for the fuel tank being on the drivers side which often gives JK's a bit of a lean. He also warrants them for 5 years against sag. I've had them in for 5 months now and done over 10000km on them, about 1/3rd of which was fully loaded up on a High Country trip and mine haven't sagged at all. They are still at exactly the same height that they were when I fitted them.
Rancho 9000xl adjustable shocks. I got these from Quadratec as they were literally half the price of the local suppliers. There are far more expensive shocks on the market and probably far more technical shocks on the market but I felt these fitted what I wanted and suited the progressive nature of the SS coils. Find a comfortable setting for your normal day to day driving (about setting 4 for me), dial them up to 7, 8 or 9 if you're fully loaded for a firmer more controlled ride and drop them back to 0 when you're crawling off road. I have been really impressed with them so far. I got the 25" shocks (they class them as a 4" lifted shock) rather than the shorter ones (2" lift) as they match the SS flexy coils better. I think I could actually get the full long travel shocks if I wanted to but getting that much flex out of the front end in particular means new drive shafts etc so I stayed with the mid length.
Teraflex Monster Adjustable Front Track Bar. I got this from SBR off road over in Perth and Victor was fantastic to deal with. This is literally a monster and pretty much unbreakable. Just make sure which ever one you get that you get one for a RHD JK!
Teraflex Rear Track Bar Bracket. I got this from SBR as well. It fits to the axle end so it raises the roll centre of the car. Be careful as some brands fix to the chassis end which doesn't have as good an effect on the handling from what I gather and can also give issues of contacting with other things under flex. PPM also do one for the axle end but fitting that involves cutting part of the original mount off which I didn't like. The Teraflex one is a straight forward bolt on affair and can therefore be taken off. Technically is is supposed to be used on 3" lifts and higher but I have no clearance issues with mine. Again, whichever one you get make sure it's for a RHD JK.
PPM Front Lower Control Arms. I got these from DBOR. They had a good reputation and everyone seemed to recommend them. There are some that you can get that have rubber bushes both ends that are supposed to give a better ride but they were considerably more expensive so I didn't bother looking seriously at them. I've had no issues with the PPM ones.
JKS Rear Sway Bar Links & Front Sway Bar Disconnects. I got these from Quadratec at the same time as my shocks. The rear links are fairly standard. You have to be careful they don't contact with the wheels under flex but if you have after market wheel then hopefully that won't be an issue. I'm still on stock rims so I had to adjust my sway bar carefully to keep it off the wheel. I've also got slightly larger bump stops than I really need and I'm therefore losing about 1" of up travel in the rear because of that but if I let it go up any further then the sway bar hits the wheel on the passenger side as the axle lifts. The front JKS disco's are generally considered the best. There are other brands but most people say they are more difficult to use.

I think that's it. There are loads of options to look at for these but these are the parts that suited my requirements. DBOR have a range of lifts, quite literally from mild to wild so it's worth having a look on their website just to get an idea. I've no doubt Wooders is able to get hold of most of what I've bought and plenty more as well if that's what you prefer. Or there Murchison up in Brisbane, SBR, Maxflex4x4, Jeep Konection, to name a few who all specialise in Jeeps and JK's. AEV have also just brought out a full 2.5" lift kit as well which is getting good reviews.

As I say, you're more than welcome to have a crawl under mine and see how all this stuff fits up, and if you want me to find a muddy bog hole to park it in first then I'm happy to do that as well :smile-new:. This is a lot of info to take but will all make sense when you see the parts. Could even throw your wheels on and see how far they stick out.

[SteveC]

Paul That's brilliant information. I'm most appreciative

[SteveC]

Paul That's brilliant information. I'm most appreciative BTW the wheels I have are 17 x 8 144.3 B/Space and +30 Offset if that helps any

[Paul-JK]

OK, wheel specs always get my head spinning (pun intended) but I think those wheels should be OK. If my calculations are correct they will move the outer edge of the tyre 20mm further out. I have 285 tyres so compared to the stock 245's mine are 20mm further out and are still under the guards. If you have 265 tyres, they will be 10mm further out than stock, plus the extra 20mm from your wheels, which gives 30mm all up, so 10mm further out than mine. I'd guess you will see the outer wall of the tyre sticking out but the tread should be covered. You will however in reality need to look at track bars/brackets when you lift though otherwise the lift will push the axles out to one side and the tyres on that side will then be sticking out from under the guards.

If you go to 285's then your tyres will be sticking out an extra 10mm again which might mean they come out from under the guards a touch but it's not likely to be noticeable. These wheels should give you enough clearance on the inside of the wheel to run 285's without rubbing at all. Mine only touch the sway bar very slightly at full lock under flex and the extra 8-9mm clearance these wheels would give should be enough to stop that.

As for legalities, I think they're legal but I'm not sure. They will increase your track width by 20mm each side so 40mm total. I think legally you increase by 50mm but as I say, I'm not sure on that.

[Nekked]

Thanks Paul, There is some information here i was unaware of and im glad you have brought it to my attention and i will look into. Thanks Steve for raising this thread.