View Full Version : Whining noise
After last weeks episode in Jenolan, I now notice a noise coming from the drive line somewhere.
It only happen when under load, ie going up hill or accelerating? It seems constant level, regardless of speed but is more evident at higher speed > more than 60kph. It does not occur at idle or neutral or cruising or going downhill
Any suggestions on what it may be? Please
Thanks in advance.
Steve
Could be something serious as ur Jeep was throwung a lot of smoke on the run??????
I think the smoke wss due to o2 sensor being broken. Now replaced . FYI - I ordered Tuesday & it turned up fr usa Thursday -thats fast. Noise is only fr driving under load. Else engine running smooth as anything
On Thursday I was lucky to book it in and and got Jeep dealer - to do my both front axles seals as it was leaking on trail as many noticed. Another lot of $$$$, though cheaper than I expected
Any one got other ideas of origin of the noise? Thanks
Engine or transmission mount/s. Had something similiar in the ZJ. Engine mounts were shagged out causing movement under load. Had some slight vibration at times as well. Replaced mounts so it cured the problem at the time........................
I doubt its the mounts as I have no vibration and it's smooth when revving engine out of gear. It's just this humming type sound. even the wife asked what's that noise?
- sounds like a bearing or similar is noisy or something. I read something it could be the pinion - but not even know what that is????
maybe you sucked mud or similar into your diffs ? when was last time you checked your diff oil? Could also be axle bearings, mine whine when on way out
I'm sure diffs are clean as Jeep put all new diff oil in front as part of Thursday's service with new seals. The rear was done 2 months ago. Mind you they only do what you tell them, so perhaps I need to get an expert to look/hear it.
I think its bearings of some sort - but I don't know how to test that!
Steve F
27-12-10, 01:53 PM
I'd be surprised if the O2 sensors fixed the smoke, when an O2 sensor dies you burn a ton more fuel, like 4 times as much and the smoke is black. You had grey smoke pouring out and it smelt like burning oil not overfueling. Have you double checked the oil levels etc and has it stopped smoking, hopefully not because it's low on oil.
Cheers
Steve
I doubt its the mounts as I have no vibration and it's smooth when revving engine out of gear. It's just this humming type sound. even the wife asked what's that noise?
- sounds like a bearing or similar is noisy or something. I read something it could be the pinion - but not even know what that is????
Mine also revved smoothly out of gear. When under load in drive/gear, the mounts really flexed excessively causing the drive line out of ideal alignment causing my noise and vibrations (at times but not all the time). Ended up having to replace the yolk in the diff due to wearing due to excessive drive play/drive angle issues as well....... Never had a humming sound through.........
Guys - all your suggestions are excellent and Ill have to get some one to check it out.
As for the smoke - Steve - Ive not used excessive oil so Ill need to get some one to follow me to see if the smoke is still there after o2 sensors changes. From what I read Though faulty02 sensors can cause smoking. I ll just have to recheck
Steve F
27-12-10, 03:26 PM
Just something to check, I had a problem with the O2 sensors on the way to Jambo and basically the engine runs very very rich, it smelt of fuel and looked like a diesel whenever I put my foot down, was also using about 60lt/100km which meant it was a stop and fix or I would have gone broke getting to Melbourne ;)
Cheers
Steve
Steve
I replaced the O2 sensor (Grand has 4x) and smoke has now gone. Got my wife to stand on a hill and I revved it up and none to be seen. Yipee. Will keep an eye on it though
I did notice on trying to locate this weird noise a small movement in front wheel bearing. Not as tight as left but a slight movement none the less. I'll pull it apart and tighten bearing etc to see if that makes a difference. Problem I have is that I need a very large socket - Off I go to get one tomorrow, shops closed.
Steve F
27-12-10, 05:28 PM
Steve
I replaced the O2 sensor (Grand has 4x) and smoke has now gone. Got my wife to stand on a hill and I revved it up and none to be seen. Yipee. Will keep an eye on it though
I did notice on trying to locate this weird noise a small movement in front wheel bearing. Not as tight as left but a slight movement none the less. I'll pull it apart and tighten bearing etc to see if that makes a difference. Problem I have is that I need a very large socket - Off I go to get one tomorrow, shops closed.
Just double check it under load as that is when it will smoke, no load no smoke. As for the wheel bearings, they are in a sealed hub and the whole hub needs replacing, you cant just tweak up the wheel bearings like you can in a lot of vehicles. This is one part of the Jeep that is a real pain as cost wise it's a lot more expensive than just replacing bearings.
This is what you're looking for
http://www.wooders.com.au/images/images/16705.09.jpg
Cheers
Steve
Thanks Steve.
Could I not just tightening the outer nut? Won't that be possible or am I wasting my time? I can feel some movement once jacked up - in the wheel if I place hands 12 & 6 o'cock and rock it a bit.
Also will diff oil run out or is it a "dry" (in layman terms) axle.
The Jeeps guys seemed to have fixed the seals that reside inside the diff housing as I can see it had been removed and all my expensive RedLine diff oil was used..
I've been skimming through my online Jeep manual and it seems it could be anything - "The axle shaft, differential and pinion bearings can all produce noise"
Oh - I can feel a headache coming on ........
Thanks
The inner seals keep the diff lube in the pumpkin, only in a closed knuckles front axle (or full floating rear) does the gear lube also lubricate the wheel bearings.
Sounds like u-joint failure (although this usually increases both vibration and noise with speed), front wheel unit-bearings (again usually increased with speed) or rear pinion bearing (also incremental with increasing speed).
You said your diff covers were leaking, how low was the fluid. You could have torched the pinion bearing by running the diff dry.
Jack up the vehicle and shake the tire at the 12/6 and 3/9 o'clock positions, you said there was some movement. There shouldn't be any. Unit bearings are expensive, but super easy to replace. Don't let a shop con you into paying labor costs to replace those.
As for u-joints. I assume this humming is happening while you are in two wheel drive? If so try removing the rear drivehshaft and driving the jeep in front wheel drive. If the sounds goes away then it is your rear drivehshaft ujoints. If the sound is still there then it is your front unit bearings or rear pinion bearings.
Good luck.
Steve F
27-12-10, 06:15 PM
Wasting your time tightening the nut, the preload on the bearings cant be changed, its a sealed unit and you chuck it when you have wear and replace the hub/unit bearings.
Cheers
Steve
Well - Today I removed the front drive shaft and took it for a run. The noise is now gone and smooth as..So I have narrowed it down some what. I cleaned the shaft and reinstalled it and the noise has returned although just a "little" better 10% better. But still there.
Either front wheel bearings, diff or tc or ........
Now at least I can provide some upfront info to whoever I will engage to fix it.
Well - Today I removed the front drive shaft and took it for a run. The noise is now gone and smooth as..So I have narrowed it down some what. I cleaned the shaft and reinstalled it and the noise has returned although just a "little" better 10% better. But still there.
Either front wheel bearings, diff or tc or ........
Now at least I can provide some upfront info to whoever I will engage to fix it.
Grand cherokees (and cherokees and tjs and yjs for that matter) do not have manual disconnect hubs so the shafts, ring and pinion, and front driveshaft are always spinning, even in 2wd. When shifting from 2wd to 4wd, you are only disconnecting the driveline from the front output on the x-case thus not sending power to the front tires. If you removed the front driveshaft and the sounds disappeared (and when the driveshaft was replaced the sound re-appeared) then this should indicate to you that the driveshaft is the culprit because the front hubs, shafts, and ring and pinion were all still spinning.
If grand cherokees are anything like XJs then the front shaft should be a double cardon cv shaft. I would take this apart and repair/clean/re-grease this assembly as well as carefully inspect/replace the u joints on both the axle and x-case end of the driveshaft. This is a good weekend project and the best part is that you can drive your jeep all around town while you repair the driveshaft. Good luck.
I think you're right
My wj has had the drive shaft changed to a double cardan unit from Tom woods, which is a great product . It does have evidence of being scratched and a bit dented from last trip though it looks quite straight...
I thought that mine was 4wd on demand, in other words, front spins/is disconnected when not under load and engages when under load. This may be why when coasting it's smooth and when under load it engages and thus gives me the noise.
I'm a bit at a loss - so Ill need to take it to an expert or someone who knows more about these things...
Any suggestions?
ps I suppose most repairers would be closed around this time of year - bugger
are you getting vibrations? If not and its just a squeek maybe its just the unis in the double cardin joint otherwise maybe ring wooders to see if he has the right drive shaft for you
Wooders
29-12-10, 10:30 AM
Sounds like dry/worn unis &/or ball centring unit on your front tailshaft.
well I took the WJ to Jeep and they are quite certain that the front Drive Shaft is what is causing the problem with the whining noise. It will be $2500 to replace it but I thought Oh that is tempting NOT!!!!.
Can any one suggest a place that I can get the shaft checked out/fixed before I replace it? After all I spent $600 from USA only a year ago.
Any where from Chatswood to Hornsby areas or elsewhere if worth travelling to.
Thanks
BPM Driveshafts in Cromer are very good, but he is not back from holiday yet - out of curiosity, have you been greasing the joints in the new front shaft?
BPM Driveshafts in Cromer are very good, but he is not back from holiday yet - out of curiosity, have you been greasing the joints in the new front shaft?
Ill give them a call but will also check out others that are recommended. A few that I've rung seem a bit vague in their interest.
Yes - I have been lubricating the shaft according to recommendations.
I think that it must a have a slight misallignment but need an expert to tell me. At the moment it's not installed so 2wd is the way.....quiet though.....
Cost me about $700.00 for a new front D/C shaft 2 years ago via John at Jmac diff & gear in Arndell Park, next to Blacktown 2 years ago. Give him a ring, very highly recommended.......
Ph. No. 9671-5800....... No harm in asking him.
P.P...... Jeep quoted me $2700.00 at the time for a standard replacement F/driveshaft................
BPM lengthened and rebalanced a shaft that I'd bought from the US for a couple of hundred dollars after I had some vibration issues with it - cost less than $200
http://www.bpmdriveshafts.com.au/index.htm
BPM lengthened and rebalanced a shaft that I'd bought from the US for a couple of hundred dollars after I had some vibration issues with it - cost less than $200
http://www.bpmdriveshafts.com.au/index.htm
Thanks Miraz. I've left them a message, so hopefully they'll get back to me shortly and the the solution will be simple.......hopefully......
I think the hitting of the shaft on the Jenolan trip was one too many, Has a small dent on the grease seal thingy and scratches along the shaft. I also think the Cardan joint doesn't feel as smooth (as I would have thought) when turning it in different directions.
At least it's drivable,,,,,
Cpage66
04-01-11, 03:33 PM
Might be farther than you want to drive, but I've had repeated great dealings with Hardy Spicer in Moorebank.
http://www.hardyspicer.com.au/hspicer.asp
well I took the WJ to Jeep and they are quite certain that the front Drive Shaft is what is causing the problem with the whining noise. It will be $2500 to replace it but I thought Oh that is tempting NOT!!!!.
Can any one suggest a place that I can get the shaft checked out/fixed before I replace it? After all I spent $600 from USA only a year ago.
Any where from Chatswood to Hornsby areas or elsewhere if worth travelling to.
Thanks
Called it!
I still have a hard time when I hear you guys say things like $2500 for a front driveshaft! For that price I would run one out on a lathe from titanium for you! Ha ha. The idea of starting a custom 4x4 shop in Australia is getting more and more appealing. Good luck with the fix.
Steve F
07-01-11, 09:57 PM
Called it!
I still have a hard time when I hear you guys say things like $2500 for a front driveshaft! For that price I would run one out on a lathe from titanium for you! Ha ha. The idea of starting a custom 4x4 shop in Australia is getting more and more appealing. Good luck with the fix.
Don't worry, nobody pays that. Custom front shaft is around the $500-$600 mark :)
Cheers
Steve
Don't worry, nobody pays that. Custom front shaft is around the $500-$600 mark :)
Cheers
Steve
Steve - WHO does that and for <$600??
I was quoted $660 just to fix it from a drive line specialist!!!!
To import one exactly the same from the States is going to cost just us$400. My preferred option I think.
Steve F
08-01-11, 07:59 AM
When I called around I could get my front driveshaft rebuilt including a new slip joint for less than $600, I just called a few near me that turned up on a google search. In the end I got a second hand front shaft for $50 from pick and payless at Blacktown, my slip joint was worn so this was the main thing I was concerned about. Of course Wooders can order them to length etc and is around that price I think but dont quote me on that.
Cheers
Steve
Ended up buy a new one from the States at a good price. Less hassle and I can keep the old one just in case
I installed the new shaft which was relatively the same as before except I went with sealed uni this time rather than greasable.
Any way after the initial drive the whining noise has improved but not totally. Still there, especially at 50-60kph ish...
Any ideas on what else I can check or more importantly any advise on what the tolerances of the moving parts should be if any? For example - should the shaft move at all when locked, should he shaft move a little before the wheels actually turn, That sort of thing...
Thanks
Steve
Cpage66
23-01-11, 06:19 PM
Not for nothing...but have you checked the condition and amount of oil in your TC lately??
I ordered Tom Woods 1310 front and rear driveshafts from the states for $1200 dealivered
The JK must be much more expensive. Luckily my front one with double cardan was a great price. He must have felt sorry for me.......Tom woods a good bloke from what I worked out.
My 10 cents (and I am not a mechanic). A couple of years ago I developed a whine from the rear diff in my KJ, especially from 70 to 90 kmph. Other symptom was that every few months it blew a rear speed sensor (mounted on top of diff, reading from crown wheel), and this started happening about 9 months before the whine appeared.
Culprit. Rear diff bearing, where drive shaft joined the diff, collapsed! So, for several months the rear diff was slowly grinding itself away. Fortunately it was still under warranty, but each time I complained about the speed sensor failing (odometer stopped counting and ABS Warning appeared), Jeep just replaced the sensor (4 times). It wasn't until I complained about the whine that they said "oh, wonder if it's the diff?".
Could this happen to the front diff bearing?
Hope that didn't sound too stupid,
Dave
I had a whin somewhere in the front left of my vehicle for a while, but that's fixed now she's gone now. LOL.
Im wondering the same thing...
How does one, who is mechanically limited when it comes to drivelines, test this in their driveway
Looks like the front diff pinion bearing etc needs an overhaul - What do you think involved and what is a reasonable cost for something like that?
Steve F
27-01-11, 12:53 PM
Call Langs in Hornsby, they are very well priced they built my rear D44 for $250 that included fitting all new bearings and seals and setting up the locker, I supplied the parts.
Cheers
Steve
Steve F
I did what you suggested and got Lang Differentials to fix the front diff. He basically rebuilt the whole insides as the teeth were worn etc etc. Not sure what the individual parts comprise of but I'm happy with the result and his service.
In hindsight I should have got him to put it different gears to run bigger tyres. Currently they are 3.73. For future reference, what ratio would you suggest I should go to if I want to run 32" tyres? What actually gets changed? and can it it been done at home?
Thanks
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