Ian's Flatfender

[Flatfender]

Well the vibration and chatter in my transmission has got so bad that I need to do something about it. I thought it was a bearing or something in the NP435 gearbox but as it was worse in top gear than any other I felt it could be the double cardan on the drive shaft. When I pulled the shaft off I could hardly detect any play in the joint but tried locking the front hubs and driving in front wheel drive only. Wow - that was frightening, talk about bump steer, but the chatter had gone indicating that the rear shaft was the culprit. So now I have a rebuilt shaft courtesy of the Transmission Physician in Hornsby. Hopefully the problem will be cured when I refit it but it will have to wait for a while as I am just heading off to Mudgee and Cobar today.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff508/42Flatfender/02112010.jpg

[CraigB]

have a nice trip Ian, hope to see you back out there again soon mate

CRB

[Flatfender]

Found time to fit the drive shaft on Sunday and gave it a quick try round the block.
Wouldn't you know it - the chatter and vibration is still there!
So I guess I have no option but to pull out the transmission.
Hopefully it will just be a bearing or something not too expensive.
Should be back from the West next weekend so hope to get at it then.

[Steve F]

Bugger, hopefully pulling the tranny is easier than it was on the XJ. Actually it has to be :)

Cheers
Steve

[Flatfender]

Well I managed to drop my Dana 20 transfer case without having to take out the gearbox which saved a lot of time and effort - that NP 435 gearbox weighs a ton. Fortunately the cross member supports the adapter I made between gearbox and TC so it made it easy. The problem now is - I can't find the problem!
With a floor panel removed I was able to take the top off the gearbox to check it out and it all appears to be OK. No visible damage anywhere and the bearings feel perfect when you turn it over by hand. The TC rear output shaft, which is the only part under load in 2 wheel drive, also rotates smoothly. So where is my noisy vibration coming from? The only noticeable wear is on the output shaft splines for the sliding gear which engages 2WD, neutral or 4WD. The transmission expert in Hornsby reckons that is the cause of my problem but I am not convinced. I was going to swap my output shaft assembly with one from an old Dana 20 from Wooders today to eliminate it as a problem but I found it was worn more than mine when I pulled it apart. So do I buy a new shaft and sliding gear when it might not be the answer, or have any of you bright guys out there got any other suggestions??? Cheers - Ian W.

[Steve F]

Rear diff, pinion bearing maybe? Although I've never had one go so not sure what to expect. Maybe even something to do with the mounts on the gearbox and the different load on them when in rear wheel drive? I had a bad vibration and it was the front driveshaft slip joint, it got to the point where I was going to stick a video camera under there and see if I could catch anything when I was trying to work out what it was, if you're desperate it may be an option.

Cheers
Steve

[Cpage66]

Rear diff and a pinion bearing will usually scream like a banshee. No mistaking that one.

[Flatfender]

Yeah Steve - I thought of the diff and already pulled the cover off and checked it out. Pinion bearings and side bearings all good and no damaged teeth anywhere. I also pulled out the half shafts and checked the wheel bearings, all OK. I'm rapidly running out of ideas!

Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Pulled my TC output shaft assembly to pieces for a better look and found that the bearings, although they felt smooth to turn, with no play, are definitely showing signs of old age. All taper rollers and both cups are pitted so new bearings and a seal are now on my bench ready for re-assembly. I just hope it is the answer to the vibration and noise. At least if it isn't I have eliminated the transfer case as the cause.

Ian W.

[Flatfender]

I rebuilt my transfer case with new bearings in the output shaft assembly last week and managed to find time to get it reinstalled. It hasn't cured the problem although the noise is a bit less than it was before. It still drives great apart from the noise and vibration on accelleration so I suppose I could just keep using it to see if it gets any worse. If I keep going until it fails at least I will find the problem! Then again I should probably drop the transmission out and have a proper look in the gearbox. I'll think about it over Christmas.
Hope you all have a good one.
Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Finally got round to dropping my transmission tonight. Advantage of no roof and a folding windscreen - I used a chain block from the roof trusses in the garage and dropped it on the floor. plenty of clearance to pull it out the side. It's still a ton weight to struggle with on your own but "where there's a will there's a way". Hope to get a chance to pull it apart tomorrow to try and identify the cause of the chatter.
Cheers
Ian w.

[Flatfender]

Pulled the gearbox apart but still can't find any particular problem. I did replace a couple of bearings just to be on the safe side before I put it all back together and guess what - yeah - No difference. It is still noisy but only when accelererating, especially in top gear. It is starting to realy p!$$ me off. As I am in Sydney for a change on Club meeting night I will see if it will make it to Regents Park and back. Hope to see you all there.
Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Had a chat with Pete, the Service Manager at Traction 4, Artarmon last week and he imediately said - Yeah that is the same noise we get all the time with hilux's. They are very succeptable to drive line vibration if the angles aren't exactly right. He reckoned my pinion to drive shaft angle was the problem, in spite of the fact that it was no problem for a few years. Thinking about it I remembered that my leaf springs have been sagging a bit lately so I jacked it up and put blocks under the bump stops to give it a 1" lift then tried it round the block. Straight off I found it was a lot better but still had a bit of noise and vibration. So in with blocks for 2" lift and hey presto - no noise and no vibration. I couldn't believe the difference especially after spending so much time and effort (let alone money) on replacement drive shaft, new transfer case bearings and new gearbox bearings, with no improvement at all.
So obviously I need to get my springs reset for a couple of inches of lift, but in the meantime as a temporary measure I put some packers between springs and axle to alter the angle and give the same result. It now drives beautifully.
That prompts the question - are tapered axle/spring shims available anywhere?
Cheers
Ian W.

[Steve F]

Tapered shims are available from Wooders in all different degrees, I have a set in my XJ at the moment as I didn't quite get the pinion angle right when I welded the mounts on for the D44. Anyway, give Wooders a call :) Oh and glad you found the problem.

Cheers
Steve

[Flatfender]

Got a set of 4 degree tapered shims from Wooders last week and doctered them to make them fit. They were a lot wider than my springs so I notched them out with an angle grinder to clear my spring clip bolts and they are now a neat fit. Also a good fit on the spring centre bolt so they can't go anywhere. That has fixed my noise and vibration problem but I should probably still get my rear springs re-set to lift the back 1" or so - back to where it used to be.
Cheers Ian W.

[Flatfender]

After my front wheel drive trip back from the Wattagans on the 12th I am back up and running with a new yoke and U-bolts for my rear drive shaft (Courtesy of Wooders home delivery service). I should have replaced the U-bolts before as they did feel a bit suspect when I fitted them originally. Of course they had to wait until half way up a rocky hill before they let go. The new ones tightened up nicely but I haven't had a chance to give it a good test yet. Time will tell!
Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Just when you think things are running nicely.......
I started to hear a rattle "somewhere underneath" when cruising along and it was still there when I pulled up and left it idling. If I took up the slack on the clutch pedal the rattle stopped so I guessed it had to be connected with the clutch release bearing.
So yet again I have dropped my transmission to the garage floor to check it out. Sure enough the release bearing assembly is the problem. The bearing itself is not bad but it has been spinning on the stub of the carrier plate and worn it badly. The resultant sloppy fit is why it was rattling under no load.
Now I have the problem of trying to locate a new replacement release bearing assembly. The original assembly came with the NP435 gearbox out of a Ford F100 when I fitted it in place of the T14 box which was in when I bought the Flatfender. I think I will have to make a trip to CBC at Kingsgrove with the old parts to see if they can identify them. Looks like I won't be Jeeping anywhere until I can get new parts and put it all back together again!

Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Well I managed to find a replacement release bearing assembly, Brakepro in Pioneer Avenue, Thornleigh, managed to get me one overnight and for $88.00 which I didn't think was too bad.
While I had the transmission out I thought I would check what weight it is. The bathroom scales went 30 to 40kg round the second time, past the 120kg maximum so I reckon it must be at least 150kg. No wonder I have a bad back!
Now I just have to put it all back together again.

[Flatfender]

Transmission is back in again. It is the heavy lump but it is actually all the ancillary bits and pieces which take the time - Exhausts, handbrake linkage, breathers, speedo drive, full length skid plate, etc.etc. and then the floor panels to refit. Anyway it is now running good again, took a quick trip up to Wooders today for a ride out.
Cheers
Ian W.

[Hunno]

Great to hear Ian, just in time for classic not plastic?

[Flatfender]

I came across a couple of old photos today of my first Jeep on the Cumbrian fells in the north of England.
This would be in about 1960. I bought it in London in 1959 as my sole means of transport.http://imgur.com/R58qVqVhttp://imgur.com/R58qVqVhttp://imgur.com/a/kUc0Xhttp://imgur.com/download/R58qVqV
http://imgur.com/ewVzAgmhttp://imgur.com/ewVzAgmhttp://imgur.com/download/ewVzAgm

[SteveC]

Classic stuff Ian!

[Paul-JK]

It's a brave man that drives an open sided (open topped) truck in the UK but you've got to be especially keen to do it in Cumbria. It's a beautiful part of the country but it's not well known for it's weather, or at least not good weather. We used to go to Grasmere every August bank holiday when I was a kid and invariably you couldn't see the tops of the fells for cloud and were walking in ankle deep mud, and that's when the rain wasn't coming in horizontally. It is a fantastic area though, in any weather. I can remember watching storms blow in across Windermere and hiking up Great Gable and Scafell Pike in driving rain.

Great photos.

[Flatfender]

I bought this 1st Jeep from Metamet (www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/jeep-metamet.htm) for 55.00 pounds and on the way home had to get petrol. It took me about 3 trips around the Jeep looking for the filler cap before I realised it was under the horse hair seat cushion I had been sitting on. I filled up and set off again but was imediately pulled up by a police car. They wanted to check the steering because the front wheels were "shimmying" when I accelerated. I didn't know at the time that it was in 4 wheel drive and the split track rod with a bell crank lever in the middle can allow an awful lot of play which isn't felt at the steering wheel. That was OK but they then checked the handbrake which of course did not work. That was when I realised what owning a Jeep was all about and what I had let myself in for, although I had no idea I would be still punishing myself 50 odd years later!
Cheers
IanW.

[AV8]

You enjoy the punishment obviously, you sick sick man, Ian. :highly_amused:

Then again, don't we all.

Luv ur Jeep. Reminds me of my first Jeep, got it some 30 odd years ago.

A Tamiya "Wild Willy"

[Flatfender]

http://imgur.com/2LodoWuhttp://imgur.com/VULuondIn 1964 I wrote off my Triumph TR3A sports car but managed to salvage the engine and had a good idea where it might fit - in my Jeep of course.
In the photo of the chassis you can see the top hat shaped bell housing I made to connect the engine to the Jeep transmission. Some shots of some of the other Jeeps we also had in England in the 1960's and 70's.

http://i.imgur.com/ANcC6hK.jpg
http://imgur.com/VULuondhttp://i.imgur.com/VULuond.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/mtuER86.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/qb48OpJ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/2LodoWu.jpg

[Flatfender]

This Jeep is one that I rebuilt from the ground up in 1965. Amazing what you can do in a little old timber lean-to garage. The last 2 shots were taken in 1969.

http://i.imgur.com/5nBsWQf.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/pYw5kQb.jpghttp://imgur.com/kFDF4RGhttp://i.imgur.com/kFDF4RG.jpg (http://imgur.com/kFDF4RG)http://i.imgur.com/XfQGYnG.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/g7UWXO4.jpg

[Flatfender]

Here's some more of my same yellow jeep in 1972. Looks like I was trying to break it!
http://i.imgur.com/BHbVoGn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ebsfuV6.jpghttp://imgur.com/Mzyr2vqhttp://i.imgur.com/Mzyr2vq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/VsL5CFr.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BdxK7EB.jpg

[Flatfender]

No doors, no windows, no roof, no heater - obviously no sense! Who cares its a Jeep
http://i.imgur.com/XxtrAka.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2vP4266.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/tI1EZRL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/evHhrzn.jpg

Cheers
Ian W.

[5teve]

great pictures ian. look like you had a lot of fun back then driving and flying your jeep. how come you didn't get a landrover?

[Paul-JK]

No doors, no windows, no roof, no heater - obviously no sense! Who cares its a Jeep

You must be nuts. After riding motorbikes all through the winter in the UK for years I know just how damn cold it is, especially when you add the wind chill factor. At least you didn't have to worry about the windscreen misting up!

[Flatfender]

great pictures ian. look like you had a lot of fun back then driving and flying your jeep. how come you didn't get a landrover?

As it happens I did actually have an early Land Rover at the same time. It was much more uncomfortable than the Jeep cruising over the fells at a decent speed. The suspension was much stiffer.
http://i.imgur.com/QKkBzO7.jpg


Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

I bought my current Flatfender in 1994. It had a huge alloy bull bar on the front when I first got it and the suspension was looking a bit tired. BUT it did have a nice Ford Windsor 289 V8 (4.7L) fitted.



http://i.imgur.com/D7xWDD3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j42sAOC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/b99WptV.jpg
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/OBF27IE.jpg

[Paul-JK]

Great photos. The farm gate on the front wasn't helping much in the looks department. Looks great though (the Jeep, not the bull bar!).

[Flatfender]

Here is the Flatfender when it was blue on one of my first trips round Porters Rd at Kenthurst.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPwIdqXpoW4

[Flatfender]

In 1996 I decided on a colour change and settled on construction yellow, similar to the one I rebuilt and painted in 1965. I must have been feeling energetic as I did a complete strip down before painting it. It actually came out looking pretty good.

http://i.imgur.com/q14ASx5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zE8u02q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZYnw67g.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u1h1vEv.jpg


Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Here is the yellow Flatfender back on the road again in 1996... still with 30" Desert Duelers, no winch, no lockers and obviously not much sense looking at the depth of water and no snorkel in the last photo. It actually flooded over the front wings but the air cleaner is tight up under the bonnet and the engine never missed a beat.

http://i.imgur.com/GOTtGAK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t1eamHl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UcOUFMR.jpg
Cheers
Ian W

[Flatfender]

It's about 18 months since all the photos in my Flatfender thread became inaccessible so at long last I have got round to replacing them all. It has taken me that long to figure out how to do it! Now I will have to think about adding more to the thread.

Cheers
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Another blast from the past! An easy run on a nice day at Porters Rd, Kenthurst again. This time in 1996. You might have to click on Yuotube if it doesn't play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXi7dLNcmU4&t=3s

[Flatfender]

1998 was a big year for the Flatfender, I did a major rebuild: Converted to "spring over axle", fitted ARB diff locks, made up an adapter to fit an NP435 gearbox in place of the T14, fitted a new 2 1/2" exhaust and a new clutch. And then sprayed it again, this time changing the colour to the current olive green with the white stars.
The spring over conversion gave it much more flex and with the diff locks and the NP435 1st gear ratio of 6.69/1 giving a crawl ratio of 58/1 it became a lot more versatile.

Ian W.

[Dru]

Ian, keep it rolling bloke!

It has been a pleasure meeting a real jeeper going hard in his classic out on the trails. Cant be too many 1960's vehicles happy to drive Cut Rock. :smile-new:

[Flatfender]

Dru, it's not so much the age of the vehicle but my age that limits where we go!

[Flatfender]

In 1999 I replaced my 30" Desert Duelers with a set of 33x12.5x15 BFG MT's and the next day took a trip to Winchbreak Hill. What I didn't know was that JAX's had put my new tyres on at 45 psi and I hadn't aired down. I found out the hard way that aggressive driving and hard tyre pressure does not work too well on steep rocks. With only a hand winch and no other vehicles it took us a few hours to get up the rocks and struggle home with a bent and battered Flatfender.
So another couple of months work in my garage and out yet again with the spray gun. (Yes -It's a Jeep thing)
Ian W.

http://i.imgur.com/bxJ7HhK.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/V6Rdmux.jpg

[Flatfender]

6 Months later - back at Winchbreak Hill again.

http://i.imgur.com/eqYSObr.jpg

[Flatfender]

Later in 1999 I decided that drum brakes in the Flatfender with a 4.7 litre V8 was a bit suicidal, so investigated fitting disc brakes. I ended up getting a kit from U.S.A. 4x4 in Mordialloc and fitting it together with a servo unit. Front brakes only but what a difference! It's the first time in 58 years of driving Jeeps that I could brake in a straight line.

Ian W.

[Granville]

Awesome thread, Ian. I love all those photos, especially the ones from the 60s. Thanks for sharing that stuff.

[Flatfender]

Since I have owned the Flatfender it has had a problem with overheating (sometimes boiling) especially on very hot days or on long steep uphill tracks. For a while I used Waterless Coolant from Liquid Intelligence. It has a boiling point of 190*C so completely cured the boiling problem but I was still concerned about frequently running in the red on the temperature gauge. I ended up buying a new Toyota FJ60 radiator and adapting it to fit. It was a lot wider at 610 mm and a very tight fit between the headlights. I had to trim off some of the flanges on it and mount the indicators further forward to squeeze it in.
Fortunately it did the job and now even on the hottest days it never goes over the green on the gauge.

Ian W.

[Flatfender]

I played about with the carburetor on my Flatfender Ford V8 trying to get it to work properly on steep inclines where it kept spluttering to a stop at crucial moments, but eventually decided that fuel injection was the way to go. So in 2000 I invested in a Holley throttle body fuel injection system from the USA. That was a big success but needed constant fiddling and adjustment to keep it in tune. I eventually swapped the ECU for a Microtech unit in 2005 and found it much better. Now I can control every setting from a laptop and once set it automatically adjusts to suit conditions. With an additional upgrade for timing control now it is even better.
At least I don't have to worry about the engine spluttering to a stop on steep rocks anymore.
Ian W.

[Flatfender]

By 2008 my old Ford 289 engine was getting a bit tired so I pulled it out and did a complete rebuild, including fitting a new camshaft to give better torque at low rpm. Now setting a little bit of hand throttle and with the super low crawler 1st gear/low ratio it gives a nice steady slow speed crawl with no feet on the pedals. Since then it's been running nicely and now has another 24,000 Km on the clock
Ian W.
https://i.imgur.com/AmGN203.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/08DKX2d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bYk3drI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MejOrEz.jpg

[Flatfender]

The Flatfender has had an increasing squeak/rattle/vibration over the last few months which turned out to be a severely worn double cardan drive shaft. I installed the last one in 2010 at a cost of $1,200.00 from Metropolitan. Wooders suggested contacting Tom Woods Custom Drive Shafts in Utah so I gave them a go and ended up with a replacement for $299.00 USD ex works. With shipping, handling and conversion rate that ended up as a total of $698.00 AUD in my hands. Sounds a lot better than $1,200.00 8 years ago.
The moral of the story is "shop around" (or just ask Wooders)

Ian W.

[Flatfender]

Eventually managed to get my LH exhaust manifold fixed after the flange cracked off on the Watagans trip last month and no one willing to try re-welding it. It turned out to be a one off special with the flange at an odd angle so no chance of a replacement but a foundry in Sydney I dealt with for 25 years or so were able to braze it back together. Back on now and working fine but not sure what will happen if it gets really hot!
3095
Ian W.

[H2Micr0]

Great news!!!

Hope to see you out again soon.

Cheers
Ben

[Hunno]

Eventually managed to get my LH exhaust manifold fixed after the flange cracked off on the Watagans trip last month and no one willing to try re-welding it. It turned out to be a one off special with the flange at an odd angle so no chance of a replacement but a foundry in Sydney I dealt with for 25 years or so were able to braze it back together. Back on now and working fine but not sure what will happen if it gets really hot!
3095
Ian W.


This looks like it Ian
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Ford-Mustang-Cougar-351W-LH-Driver-Exhaust-4V-Manifold-C9OE-9431-B/233262787158?epid=14029624265&hash=item364f8baa56:g:o6EAAOSwSvRbYdV6

[Flatfender]

I think mine started out like that Hunno but it had been cut and welded at a different angle before I got it. Some others are fairly similar but not near enough and would have meant changing the front end of the exhaust system, which would have been a real pain bearing in mind it's a V8 with 2 pipes into 1 near the front.

[Flatfender]

An old friend of mine in England spotted a Jeep recently and recognised the EUJ458 number plate. It was the one I had in 1964 and fitted the Triumph TR3 engine in from my written off car (see #26,page 3 of this thread). Now 55 years later it has been fully restored and is still running with my TR3 engine.
3107
3108
3109

Ian W.

[Steve F]

Must go alright with the TR3 motor, seems like it is about the same power as the 2lt ford motor from the 70's that was in the Aussie Escorts and the UK 2.0lt Cortina so gives me something to compare it to :)

Cheers
Steve

[H2Micr0]

That is very cool indeed.

Ben

[Flatfender]

Last month's Stockton Beach trip (thanks Jared C, my first time there) came to a sudden end for the Flatfender when the thermo fan lost 9 of its 10 plastic fan blades causing the radiator to leak in the process. No sign of the missing blades but plenty of steam and boiling water. Many thanks to Stephen T. who towed me the 12 Km to Anna Bay and thanks also to the NRMA who arranged transport back to my garage at home courtesy of their Veteran, Vintage & Classic Vehicle Insurance. The radiator was a Toyota one I had cut to fit the Jeep but it was too badly damaged to repair so I had to modify another new one to suit, along with another new fan.
Back on the road again now but questions being asked from my better half . . "is there no end to the expense?" Don't be silly - it's a Jeep!

Ian W.

[H2Micr0]

Great news Ian.

See you again when we have some open trails to run.

Might be a while sadly.

Cheers
Ben