Long Arm or Short Arm..?

[MOP44R]

Hi Everyone,

Was hoping to get a second opinion (Or third…), Ive been uming and 'arring for about 2 months now on what lift to get, basically I had decided on a Long Arm 4” Full Traction Kit from the States then through Solid in Melbourne getting the other parts needed so it will fit RHD. But more recently Ive been thinking about the long term and a long arm kit my result in unwanted attention so have also been thinking of 4WD1 and there Rancho 4” Short arm kit, Im not really a fan of Rancho shocks but Kirks JK with the short arm kit flex’s great, looks great and seems to keep all normal on road drivability benefits of the short arm…

I suppose my question or topic is based around what would be best for me and getting some other opinions will/may help… I basically drive my Jeep everyday to and from work which is about 40 clicks each way and try and get off road at least once a week worst case once a fortnight. Im after the extra height to give my 35’s breathing room around the bushwacker flares but also want to start tackling those A grade tracks and rock shelf’s that so good from outside the cabin but get close…:o

Im open to any suggestions or recommendations and not only just these 2 brands but any out there

[reyzor]

hey mate,

firstly id be areful with solid, have a look on ausjeep at the issues people are having with danny with regards to after sales support.
im running a rubicon express lift 3.5' and 35's, i find that under full flex im still scrubbing on my bushcrackers.... maybe give wooders a shout and see what he reckons... IMHO the RE kits is very complete as opposed to others on the market (just need to get your own shocks,)

[MOP44R]

Thanks mate, just had a read through some of the issues then, Wow... Will keep looking I guess

[reyzor]

as with anything on the net, i dunno if i'd take it as gospel.... BUT, solid seems to have more unhappy customers then most..... wooders should be able to help out out.

[casey]

Seems you're doing most of your driving on road, so you probably dont want to be excessively sacrificing that drivability for the occasional weekend off-road.

A much easier solution to fix the stuffing problem would be to try take the Bushwhacker flares off and putting the stock ones back on - or try flat fender flares like Xenons which will give you *heaps* of room for the wheels to stuff without scrubbing.

I've heard of heaps of people with Bushwhackers complain about a lack of room for stuffing the wheels when flexing. George has them, and even though he's a wuss and doesn't take his Jeep off-road anymore ;) - he complains of the same thing with 35's and a 4" lift.

The stock control arms on a JK are longer than stock TJ control arms so there is less need to go to long arm lifts when upgrading the suspension. A long arm kit is a pretty significant expenditure and modification. Just make sure you're making the right mod for your what you want to achieve. If its about fixing the stuffing problem, easiest fix is to change the flares. You could also increase your bumpstops but that will reduce flex - which you said you don't want to happen.

The best advice for mods is to figure out what you want your Jeep to end up like - and plan your mods around that. And if you can do each part (wheels, suspension, etc) once, and do it right, it will cost you a lot less in the end.

[MOP44R]

Good advice Thanks Casey

[tonysrich]

I think a 3.5 inch lift with 35 inch tires is the perfect compromise on the JK between increasing its off road ability while still maintaining its road handling to make it a practical daily driver. I'd only think that long arms are an advantage for big lifts over 4 inches and even then I would only get them if I was going to go to all the way with a 6 inch lift and 37's. But can you imagine the hassle of using it every day? Just getting in and out of the car would be a huge pain in the arse.

I have a 3.5 inch suspension lift with Rubicon Express short arms and while they work well they do scrub the guards when fully compressed and rub on the sway bars when on full steering lock and fully flexed. I was beginning to believe that touching something was par for the course with any kit and I'm thinking the only way to solve my problem is to get wider flares (Black Diamond flares are 2inchs wider than stock but virtually identical visually) so I can fit 1.5 inch wheel spacers to give me more room.

But you should talk to Casey about his AEV 3.5 inch kit. Both his and mine are 3.5 inch lifts but I reckon he gets more flex than my rig and he says that he gets no rubbing problems with the system and that it has excellent road handling, better than standard. It has less components in it than many other systems (you'll need to check with Casey but I think it even uses the stock control arms) but I think that’s because it is a better thought out package that is designed to be as effective as possible while only replacing what is absolutely necessary and keeping as many stock components as they can. Its design maintains the original geometry of all the steering and suspension components in an effort to keep the road handling as good if not better than a standard car even though it has a significant lift.

I’ve looked at most of the different systems currently available for the JK and if I was going to do my car again I'd get the AVE kit.

[reyzor]

tony, i think you will find if you get differnt offset wheels your rubbing problems will go away, the reason i say this is cos you are running standard flares and still manage to keen the tires inside them.... also wheel spaces are illegal for on road use so unless you wanna attract the boys in blue i wouldnt be running them.

i too have the 3.5 RE lift in my car (mines a 2dr, not sure if that makes a difference) and have no issues with rubbing on swaybars etc, the only place i run is the underside of the flares, but thats probably cos the bushwhackers are so thick, might be looking at getting some flat xenons to free up some much needed space....

also with what your saying about 6 inches and 37's, i reckon you could get away with a 4.5 inch lift, to run 37's again depending on the offset of your wheels.....my 2c :)

[Miraz]

I work on the basis that bumpstops are an integral part of the suspension kit as you run bigger tyres, if combined with longer shocks or shock relocation brackets then the reduction in up-travel can be balanced by increasing down travel...so that overall flex is maintained.

The AEV kit has substantial bump stops to work around the clearance issues created by the front and rear track bar towers, and it flexes very well - without any rubbing problems.

I'm running 2" of additional bump stop all round on a 4" lift - but the shocks are designed for a 6" lift....end result is very flexible. The only rubbing problems I've had have been with the ORO sway bar, but that was easily adjusted out of the system.

The long arm systems are also useful at lower ride heights, they provide different suspension geometry and hence different behaviour - especially in pitch and heave modes.

I've got a long arm kit on it's way that converts the front and rear axle from 5 links to 4 link designs - this will run at the same 4" ride height as the current Teraflex short arms, but should provide more down travel without binding and improved anti-dive/anti-squat behaviour.

[tonysrich]

tony, i think you will find if you get differnt offset wheels your rubbing problems will go away, the reason i say this is cos you are running standard flares and still manage to keen the tires inside them.... also wheel spaces are illegal for on road use so unless you wanna attract the boys in blue i wouldnt be running them.

i too have the 3.5 RE lift in my car (mines a 2dr, not sure if that makes a difference) and have no issues with rubbing on swaybars etc, the only place i run is the underside of the flares, but thats probably cos the bushwhackers are so thick, might be looking at getting some flat xenons to free up some much needed space....

also with what your saying about 6 inches and 37's, i reckon you could get away with a 4.5 inch lift, to run 37's again depending on the offset of your wheels.....my 2c :)

Macquarie 4WD fitted my suspension, the tires where supposed to fit using the standard alloys rims but once they where on the car they rubbed on the control arms. Macquarie couldn't explain why the tires rubbed but said the only solution was to fit new wheels with more offset. I took advantage of this to change to steel wheels which I prefer over alloys because if they take a big knock they will dent but not crack unlike alloy and because if I do damage one they cost $175 to replace over the Jeep alloys at $750 each. The guys at Macquarie probably think I'm a patsy but I am not going to pay for the new steel wheels, it was their mistake, they can pay for it.

Thing is though I'm now running the biggest offset wheel I can and still keep my 12.5 inch KM2 muddies under the guards. Even if I could change to wheels with more offset I wouldn't, I just spent over $500 modifying them to accept my Staun pneumatic beadlocks (they’re awesome by the way, 2 days running 10psi at Newnes the other weekend without a problem and the car gripping like a Gecko).

Changing to wider guards and spacers is my only option now without changing to a narrower tire. I’m not worried about spacers being illegal, what Cop is going to ask me to take off a wheel so he can look for spacers? It’s the same with the beadlocks. How many Coppers would have any idea what they are let alone look for them? I was pulled over by some bored Highway Patrol Cops in Goulburn a few months ago. They had a real attitude too but they never questioned anything about the car being modified, just hassled me about having one headlight out.

Three and a half inches of lift and 35 x 12 inch tires didn’t even make them blink let alone look closely at my car or ask to see my engineers’ certificate to prove the car was roadworthy. If the staff at most (all) Jeep dealerships don’t even know what these things are and that includes the mechanics, what the hell would some Cop know?

But pneumatic beadlocks and wheel spacers are hidden away from sight. I love the hard core look of flat panel guards like the Xenon’s but I reckon that they would definitely draw attention from the Cops. I am leaning more towards the Black Diamond guards because they look stock and won’t attract unwanted attention.

I could just imagine most Cops immediately assuming that flat panel guards are illegal because they don’t curve down towards the tire at the edge like every other guard. Flat panel fenders just look too minimal, too different. Even when they are obviously wider than the tires they just don’t look legal. The average Cop wouldn’t know and probably wouldn’t care either. They would most likely just defect you because they didn’t like the look of them and then leave it to the Motor Registry to figure out.

[CraigB]

Check out Overkill. I been through this entire lift thing too. Most of the kits I would call a 'McDonalds kit'. That is, a quick knock-up. Some of the 'arm-kits' from the local suppliers, although more complete than the basic OME-types, still lack bits, especially for RHD. Thats where Overkill come in - he does stuff engineered to suit. Compare prices too, it's a real minefield where a so-called 'good price' is actually because there is so much missing. I could get my Wrangler re-done now, but dont intend to. I'm going to wait and get the extra money for a complete undercarriage re-work.

CRB

[Steve F]

Last I heard Overkill got some of the right hand drive parts from Wooders, also be carefull of overkill, some club members have had very bad experiences with them especially on the larger longer jobs, like any workshop ask around first.

Cheers
Steve

[MOP44R]

Thanks everyone for the advice, glad I posted the question...

Will look into it over the next few weeks and make my decision soon and fill you all in on what I decide.